All Eyes on Delphi · 08C01-2210-MR-1

The Jury: Voir Dire, Deliberations & Appeal

Voir Dire Transcripts Murder Sheet Podcast Juror #8 Interview on Jan. 10, 2025 The Unsolved Juror #5 Interview on May 28, 2025 Ickmeister & Backdoor Juror #5 Interview on Apr. 21, 2026 Mia McHaffey Facebook posts on Sept. 25, 2026
Panel Composition

12 regular jurors + 4 alternates selected from two pools across two days. Judge Gull presiding. McLeland conducted all State voir dire; Rozzi led Round 1 defense voir dire; Baldwin handled subsequent rounds. Five rounds Day 1 (pool of 60); four rounds Day 2 (new pool of 52). Jurors sequestered for the duration of trial.

Strikes: State used 9 peremptory; Defense used 7. Four initially accepted jurors removed before trial. Gender (final panel): 8 male, 8 female.

Seated Regular Jurors
Voir Dire Seat Gender Profile Notes Credibility
D1-Pool #39 D1 R1 S01 F Nurse; aunt murdered in CA (before she was born); no opinion formed from media Consistency: “if you're telling the truth, it's easier to tell the truth consistently”
D1-Pool #19 D1 R1 S03 M No hardship; no media exposure; evidence-focused Phones, location, testimony, witness evidence
D1-Pool #01 D1 R1 S08 F Son is Fort Wayne police officer; watches kids; no effect on impartiality stated Consistency of the story; skeptical of circumstantial alone
D1-Pool #42 D1 R1 S10 F Fewest identifying markers of any seated juror; minimal biographical disclosure Where was the person at the time; behavior, pacing, nervousness
D1-Pool #21 D1 R1 S12 M Public school system; 3 prior criminal juries (all drug-related; 2 guilty, 1 not guilty); acquitted one because prosecution was “stretching it” Likely Foreman Not extensively detailed; participated in group discussions
D1-Pool #36 D1 R2 S04 M, 73 Prior jury service (criminal assault, ~40 years ago, found it difficult); no media opinion; oldest juror on panel Body language
D1-Pool #08 D1 R2 S06 F No prior jury service; no law enforcement connections; one of 3–4 undecided jurors; described deliberations as worst experience; post-trial Reddit reading Mia McHaffey DNA, motive, weapon; acknowledged DNA won't be in every case; open to convicting without a weapon
D1-Pool #45 D1 R2 S11 M Cousin is police officer; articulate about not requiring any single evidence type Variety of evidence types; open to totality; “can't say have to have any one piece”
D1-Pool #54 D1 R3 S02 F Has children and works; moderate media exposure; pragmatic about sequestration hardship Not extensively detailed
D1-Pool #16 D1 R4 S09 M Robbed at work (2017); confirmed would not hold frustration against officers in this case Body posture, eye contact, voice: “all those things”
D2-Pool #01 D2 R1 S01 F Family in law enforcement; prior murder case jury; both parties agreed without using strikes; most articulate and perceptive juror in Day 2 pool Body mechanics, vocabulary, facial expressions; “probably guilty” is NOT enough to convict
D2-Pool #30 D2 R1 S05 M Read media; no opinion formed; originally selected as alternate; promoted to regular jury when Juror 51 was struck for cause on Day 2 Take all evidence, combine into “overall hypothesis”; consistency-based
Alternate Jurors
Voir Dire Alt # Gender Key Notes
D2-Pool #11 Alt 01 M Caregiver; no other caregivers available; formed opinion from media but says can set aside
D2-Pool #02 Alt 02 F Works for Indiana Dept. of Education; family in law enforcement; formed media opinion; practical about sequestration work concerns
D2-Pool #10 Alt 03 M Self-described “follower”: “I don't really speak out much”; would NOT call out improper deliberation behavior; alternates were present in deliberation room but barred from speaking
D2-Pool #09 Alt 04 F Guardian of high school girl; last juror selected for the entire trial; evidence-first standard: “You can't just jump on somebody and say, ‘You’re guilty’”
Removed Before Trial Removed

Cross-reference note: A juror who identified herself on a podcast as “Juror Number 5” and said she was in “the very first group called in” (Day 1 Round 1) cannot be matched to any seated juror from Round 1 pool records. Pool Juror #5 from Day 1 was a male excused for impartiality. “Juror Number 5” likely refers to trial seating number, not voir dire pool number. She first came forward May 28, 2025 on The Unsolved YouTube channel (Tim’s juror), then appeared April 21, 2026 on “True Crime Tak With Frankmeister” under the alias Lucy Lou 29. Both presentations treat her as the same person; detail and emphasis differ across the two interviews.

Juror notes provenance: Handwritten notes attributed to “Juror #5” were circulated through The Unsolved channel. The notes shown in the May 2025 video record October 30 testimony by Monica Wala (clinical psychologist, Westville Dept. of Corrections) and include the notation “only publish 303”; the juror herself noted during Wala’s testimony that Exhibit 304 was not published to the jury. The 4/4/23 and 4/5/23 confession phrases (“Am I dead?”, “Can I die now?”, “Poor little girls”, “didn’t want them to suffer”) appear in the notes under the Oct. 30 / Monica Wala entry. A separate provenance analysis disputes these notes as mechanically inconsistent with genuine jury notes, arguing this phrase cluster does not appear in any in-court source and that the “didn’t want them to suffer” phrasing derives from a sustained objection; the notes’ own attribution to Wala’s in-court testimony directly conflicts with that conclusion. Whether Wala testified to this content on Oct. 30 is not resolved from available sources.

Foreman Identification

The Murder Sheet podcast juror confirms the foreman was male, chosen by nomination and vote, and “had been on juries in the past.” She describes him as “the absolute best choice,” “a very like professional, well spoken person.” She did not vote for him personally.

The foreman directed the deliberation structure: timeline-building on Day 1, small-group breakouts on Day 2, and the “know vs. believe” framework on Day 4. His question to undecided jurors: “What do you know? What do you believe? Does what you don't believe create reasonable doubt?” That question was the pivot that led to the unanimous verdict.

Juror #21 (D1 R1 S12): Stronger Candidate Likely
  • Three prior criminal juries, the most prior jury experience of any seated juror
  • Works in institutional setting (public school system)
  • Prior acquittal shows willingness to hold State to burden
  • Only seated male from the Day 1 Round 1 pool with prior jury service
  • Foreman chosen by nomination and vote, consistent with professional background
D2-Pool #30: Weaker Candidate
  • Had prior jury service (raised hand when asked)
  • Promoted from alternate on Day 2; less established presence with the group
  • Credibility approach (“overall hypothesis”) is consistent with how foreman directed deliberation
  • Both parties agreed on this juror without peremptory strikes

Assessment: Juror #21 is the stronger candidate by a significant margin. Three prior criminal juries in an institutional work environment, and a demonstrated willingness to acquit, matches the Murder Sheet juror's description of the foreman as professional, experienced, and unbiased.

Mia McHaffey: Identity & Profile Match
Self-Identification New

Mia McHaffey publicly identified herself as a trial juror on Sept. 25, 2026 on the Ashleigh Banfield Facebook post. She is the first juror to attach her real name to public post-trial statements. She went on to engage in an extended public comment thread over multiple days, discussing the evidence she weighed, what she excluded from deliberation, and her view of the appeal. Full transcript: Juror Thread.

“As a juror on this trial, I did not take into account any of the confessions or any of the ballistics. I don't think the disclosure of those things made a difference ultimately in the decision.”
“I didn't have my phone, watch tv, or see my family for 3.5 weeks.”

When a commenter (Christine Salzer) claimed she broke the sequester order, Mia rebutted directly:

“Please show me the proof on my profile I ‘broke the sequester order’. I didn't have my phone, watch tv, or see my family for 3.5 weeks. But yeah, I'm just a random person claiming to have been on the jury. If you've looked back at my profile two years, you should've seen what I looked like then.”
“I sat second row, next to Bob Motta, Erica Morse, and Kathy Allen. You posted on Facebook in the middle of trial.”

The courtroom seating reference (proximity to the families of the victims and one of Richard Allen's family members in the gallery) is corroborating detail a fabricator would not have. She also responded to a question about her juror number with “#2,” which appears to be a trial seating number (not her voir dire pool number).

The 3.5-week sequestration claim is internally consistent with the trial record.

Probable Juror Profile Match: Murder Sheet Podcast Juror / Juror 08 (D1 R2 S6) Strong Match
Murder Sheet Juror (voir dire profile)
  • Female, no prior jury service
  • Did not weigh bullet/cartridge: “I didn't even take the bullet into consideration because of your doubts about the science”
  • Only confession she found compelling: the van mention
  • One of 3–4 undecided jurors
  • Post-trial reading Reddit “probably unhealthily”
  • Judge Gull offered personal counseling contact
  • Self-described as into fashion, emotional, gullible, and a gossip; made one close female friend on the jury
Mia McHaffey (Facebook)
  • Female, self-confirmed juror
  • Did not weigh confessions or ballistics (broad statement)
  • Van confession cited as the only confession detail she articulated as compelling evidence
  • Emotionally describes verdict as devastating: “I will truly never be the same”
  • Actively engaging true crime audience online
  • Articulate but emotionally expressive in comments; ongoing difficulty

Assessment: The parallel on the van confession is highly distinctive. The van mention was the sole confession element she found credible in both accounts. Combined with the no-prior-jury-service match and the emotional profile, this strongly suggests Mia McHaffey is the Murder Sheet podcast juror, most likely Juror 08 (Day 1, Round 2, Seat 6). Her self-reported trial seat number of #2 is not necessarily inconsistent, as jury box seating assignments do not track voir dire pool numbers.

What She Relied On: Evidence Analysis
Did NOT Weigh Confirms PDF
DID Weigh: Her Full Stated Reasoning From Thread

In response to a commenter asking for specifics, she laid out a multi-factor cumulative framework:

“Richard Allen told us he was there that day and what time. He mentioned seeing a group of girls. That group of girls also saw Richard Allen. He was there, they saw each other, that is fact. Then, he said he was on the bridge looking at the fish, but didn't see the girls. There is no way that if he was on the bridge at the time he was there he didn't see the girls. He also said he was wearing a blue jacket, jeans, boots or tennis shoes, and had a hat. In one of his confessions, he mentioned a white van driving down and frightening him during the crime. After investigation, a white van was actually there near the scene at the time of the crime. No one would know that but the killer. No other man with similar clothing or anything was seen by anyone else there that day. The bullet found in his keepsake box had the same exact bullet brand and type. Even though all of those facts wouldn't stand on their own, the presence of all of them makes it unreasonable to believe Richard Allen isn't guilty of the crime.”

She later elaborated on what specifically connects presence to guilt:

“The guilt comes from him clearly lying about seeing the girls, and he was wearing the same clothing as BG as reported by him. I'll acknowledge that it's a common thing for men to wear, but there is zero information pointing to the fact that there was anyone else there wearing those clothes other than him. Only the killer would know about the van.”

On the question of whether she believed he was the only person involved:

“I don't think we were led to believe he was the only one. Just that he was the only one there that all of the puzzle pieces fit.”

On the missing phone from his collection:

“100% about the pile of phones. People don't mention that often. They had every phone they've ever owned since the 90s, but not that one.”
Apparent Contradiction: Confessions Note

In her opening statement she said she did not take into account “any of the confessions.” In a later detailed comment she explicitly cited the van detail from a confession to Dr. Wala as compelling. This is reconcilable in one of two ways:

Either reading is consistent with the Murder Sheet juror profile, which states: “Only confession she found compelling was the van mention.”

She also addressed the Holeman interrogation specifically in the podcast: she criticized it as “overdone” and said Allen “was just too calm and really didn't know anything to have done” in that context, suggesting she found the style counterproductive, not that the confession content was irrelevant.

Deliberation Timeline From Murder Sheet Interview

All physical evidence was in the jury room in large containers, not in the courtroom as some media reported. Deliberations ran across four days (Thursday–Monday).

Day 1: Thursday

  • Built timeline of events on the large prosecution trail map using sticky notes, marking times, witness positions, and phone data
  • Also built a separate written (paper) timeline
  • Timeline construction took most of the day and into the next morning
  • No vote taken

Day 2: Friday

  • Finished timeline in the morning
  • Foreman directed split into four groups of three, each assigned a topic:
    • Group 1: Confessions on sheets from suicide companion
    • Group 2: Phone calls
    • Group 3 (Murder Sheet juror's group): Confessions to Wala and Martin + medication timeline (when meds started, when administered, how they correspond to confessions)
    • Group 4: Not identified in interview
  • Afternoon spent discussing opinions, described as “the hard part”; some people talking over others
  • Sarah Carbaugh's testimony was questioned and removed from the timeline
  • End of day vote: 9 Guilty / 3 Undecided
  • Decided to request video evidence for Saturday; gave advance notice to court

Day 3: Saturday (half day)

  • Watched all video evidence; stayed late because videos were long
  • Watched both police interviews; primarily wanted to rewatch Mullin; something specific they wanted to see again
  • Watched remastered/stabilized bridge guy video and audio-only version of bridge guy video
  • Little discussion due to time constraints
  • End of day vote: 8 Guilty / 4 Undecided: one juror moved backward after watching the interrogation videos

Weekend (Saturday–Sunday)

  • Individual reflection only; no group deliberation
  • Murder Sheet juror journaled extensively: narrowed to “what do I know for facts” vs. “what do I believe” and “are those things enough to warrant unreasonable doubt”

Day 4: Monday (Final)

  • Best deliberation day per Murder Sheet juror
  • Foreman directed undecided jurors to list: (1) what they know, (2) what they believe
  • Then the inverse: what don't we believe? Does that create reasonable doubt?
  • Open discussion between guilty and undecided camps
  • Final vote: Unanimous Guilty
  • Foreman's reaction: “Are you serious? Unanimous?”
  • Murder Sheet juror was crying: “such an overwhelming feeling”
  • Verdict delivery delayed: Kathy Allen was out of town
  • After verdict, jurors were told to run out of courthouse to avoid media; got stopped by a train
Deliberation Insights
“I know I can speak for all of the jurors when I say that every single one of us took this very seriously. I promise you, when you're truly faced with something like this, you are not happy to write ‘guilty’ down on that paper. It was a very emotional process for every single person involved. I know I will truly never be the same. Please take these things into consideration before making posts and comments. And most importantly, RIP Abby and Libby.”
On Her Role in Deliberations
“It was not my job to police their investigation, rather make a decision based off of the facts provided to me.”

On the deliberation dynamic when challenged about other suspects being on the trail:

“I appreciate your compassion. You are right, it was very hard. But that is how a murder trial goes, they charge a person and the jury has to decide if they think that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt… I don't think we were led to believe he was the only one. Just that he was the only one there that all of the puzzle pieces fit.”
On Other Jurors / Deliberation Process
“I'll only speak for myself” (when discussing how she weighed the sketch evidence)

She is careful to limit her statements to her own reasoning on evidentiary questions, while speaking collectively about emotional experience. The distinction matters legally: she is not characterizing how other jurors weighed evidence.

From the Murder Sheet interview: the jury noted negative sentiment toward the defense throughout trial: “people did express to me negative feelings about the defense.” Rozzi's voir dire approach “felt almost like it was an interrogation” and his trial performance was described as “intimidation” and “smoke and mirrors.” Prosecution tech failures (monitor issues) frustrated the jury: “our time is very valuable.”

Appeal-Relevant Statements Appeal
On a New Trial: Mia McHaffey
“I welcome another trial if it's deemed most constitutional. I don't think my opinion really matters as far as predicted outcome, but I do think another trial would silence a lot of the public opinion surrounding the process.”

This is the most significant statement for the appeal. A now-named juror is publicly open to a retrial, not on the basis of innocence, but on constitutional process grounds. She draws a clear line between the verdict outcome and procedural legitimacy.

On Excluded Evidence (Odinist theory / sketches)
“My take is that [the sketches and Odinist theory] specifically wouldn't have changed the outcome. I think they were rightfully not included in trial.”
“I haven't heard about the drug angle.” [When asked if she'd want to hear about it in a new trial]: “That's the one I'm most interested in. It's definitely going to get interesting.”

The Odinist comment directly addresses one of the appeal brief's central arguments. Mia's position is that the exclusion was proper and would not have affected the verdict. Courts generally do not weigh juror post-trial speculation on excluded evidence, but this is a named juror's counter-statement to a core appeal argument. Her unfamiliarity with “the drug angle” is also notable: it suggests at least some allegedly excluded material was genuinely unknown to the jury.

Cartridge / Ballistics Evidence Appeal

Mia explicitly did not weigh the bullet/cartridge match. This is directly relevant to the appeal if the cartridge methodology is successfully challenged: at least one named juror confirms the conviction did not rest on that evidence for her. The statement cuts both ways. It may undercut an appeal argument that the cartridge evidence was prejudicial, while also confirming the evidence was not unanimously relied upon.

“Gravely Disabled” Confession Claim

The defense brief argues Allen was “gravely disabled” when making statements to investigators, rendering those statements inadmissible. Mia's public statements complicate this argument in a specific way: she says she did not rely on the confessions generally, with one exception. The van detail is the one fact she describes as something only the killer could have known. If the confessions are suppressed on appeal and a new trial is ordered, that van detail (from Dr. Wala's interrogation) would presumably also be excluded. Her own stated reasoning shows that detail was load-bearing for at least one juror.

She separately addressed the Holeman interrogation: she criticized it as “overdone” and said Allen “was just too calm and really didn't know anything to have done”, suggesting she found that interrogation less credible, not more. This undermines the prosecution's argument that the Holeman confession was compelling to the jury.

Potential Deliberation Misconduct Issues Appeal

“If not Allen, then who?” The Murder Sheet juror reports at least one juror asked “if it wasn't Richard Allen, then who could it have possibly been?” She identified this as “a wrong question to ask because that's not what this is about. We're not seeing if it could be anyone else.” This reverses the burden of proof. If this argument influenced other jurors, it could support a claim of improper deliberation.

Pressure on undecided jurors. The Murder Sheet juror stated: “At some point, someone alluded to, we don't need to make a decision out of sympathy for people that are undecided to feel bad. And that really got to me that day.” This suggests social pressure on holdout jurors to conform, which could support a coercion claim if the undecided jurors felt pressured into a verdict.

Juror moved backward after viewing evidence. The vote went from 9–3 (guilty–undecided) on Friday to 8–4 on Saturday after watching the Holeman/Mullin interrogation videos. At least one juror who was initially guilty became undecided after rewatching the videos. The final unanimous vote on Monday raises the question of whether that juror was genuinely persuaded or pressured.

Alternates present during deliberations. The Murder Sheet juror confirms alternates were in the deliberation room but “weren't allowed to say anything at all. And their notes were not allowed to be used.” Their mere presence is standard in some jurisdictions but could be challenged if it created pressure or if any alternate spoke. Cross-reference: D2-Pool #10 (Alternate 3) self-described as a “follower” who would not call out improper behavior; if this alternate was present and observed misconduct, they would not have reported it. Note: Lucy Lou separately states that the alternate she refers to as “Fig” was housed in a completely different location from the rest of the jury during sequestration, and was seen only when walking into the courtroom. If accurate, at least one alternate was effectively excluded from the deliberation environment, and the question of which alternates were in the room during deliberations requires further clarification.

Ballistics divergence between named jurors. Mia McHaffey states she “did not take into account any of the confessions or any of the ballistics” and specifically says she “threw out the science of the bullet.” Lucy Lou (Juror #5 / Frankmeister interview) states the witness who made the most impact on her was Melissa Oberg, the firearms/weapons expert, describing the cartridge mark comparison as “just like a fingerprint.” The Unsolved interview independently corroborates this: in response to the question about compelling witnesses, the juror names “Melissa Oberg, forensic firearms examiner. She was on the stand the entire day. We watched videos of how to look for specific markings that a particular firearm could cause as the inside toolings are not the same.” She also named “C. Cecil” as compelling. Two named jurors from the same deliberation reached opposite relationships to the same physical evidence. This divergence cuts both ways for the appeal: it establishes the ballistics evidence was not uniformly relied upon, but also that at least one juror found it dispositive.

Bridge Guy video re-watch during deliberations. Lucy Lou confirms the jury requested to re-watch Libby’s Bridge Guy video during deliberations. The request was not unanimous: a few jurors wanted to re-hear it; not all needed to. During the re-watch, jurors were permitted to sit closer to the screen rather than in their assigned seats, and the room was quieter. Lucy Lou states she heard “that be a gun” on the audio. The request to replay evidence during deliberations, and the physical repositioning of jurors, is on the record as a deliberation room event.

Timeline inconsistency as deliberation factor. Lucy Lou specifically identifies Allen’s changing timeline as a key factor in the verdict: he stated he was at the trail between 1:30 and 3:30 in his original statement; told investigators “a little before noon, around noon, 1, 1:30, 1:45” in his interrogation; and “kept changing” across three different accounts. The jurors used a “big poster of the entire trail” to map each witness’s stated time and location, with Allen’s shifting placement as the central inconsistency.

Lucy Lou / “Juror #5” post-trial contamination. Lucy Lou confirms she learned specific facts after the trial that she referenced as though they were trial knowledge: the wife’s lawnmower phone story (“at the time and during trial, I did not know that”); the Cass County jail threat video (judge excluded as too prejudicial, jury never saw it). She may be conflating post-trial media consumption with trial testimony across other claims as well. Her sex addiction attribution (to “one of the doctors”) may also be a post-trial conflation: the trial record attributes that claim to Dr. Gate Closure, whose notes were subsequently destroyed. This pattern of contamination materially limits her reliability as a source on what the jury actually heard and weighed.

Fact-check: 64 claims from the Lucy Lou interview with Ickkmeister & Backdoor · full PDF

A 27-page claim-by-claim review of the April 21, 2026 interview against the trial record. The following contradictions are most significant for evaluating her reliability:

  • Blown-up posters (Claim 36): Lucy Lou describes prosecution exhibits at 60x magnification. The record shows those posters were defense exhibits, conditionally admitted. She attributes to the prosecution evidence that belongs to the defense.
  • “Just like a fingerprint” (Claim 37): Lucy Lou states a witness testified the cartridge match was “just like a fingerprint.” No witness used that phrase in testimony. The record does not contain it.
  • “Markings were right on” / first attempts failed (Claims 32, 38): Lucy Lou characterizes the match as definitive. The record shows Oberg’s first six manual-cycle attempts failed to produce a match; she supplemented with additional research before reaching her conclusion.
  • “And when I went back” (Claim 34): Lucy Lou describes Allen making an inadvertent admission during interrogation, implying he scouted the trail earlier that morning. The record shows “Nope.” at the relevant exchange point.
  • Post-trial contamination (Claims 62–64): The lawnmower/phone story, the Cass County jail threat video, and the sex addiction attribution were all learned after the trial. Lucy Lou references them as though they were trial knowledge. None of these items was ever before the jury.

The Unsolved interview: additional disclosures (May 28, 2025). The juror’s written responses to viewer questions in the May 2025 Unsolved interview add several details not present in the Frankmeister interview. On voice recognition: “When I watched the 1st interview video and heard RA speak, the hairs stood up on my arms”; she states she immediately believed Allen’s voice was Bridge Guy’s. On Sarah Carbaugh (the defense-challenged witness who testified she saw a muddy, bloody figure on County Road 300 North): “I believed her.” On Allen caught lying during interrogation: he initially said he did not go out on the bridge; when confronted, he admitted being on the first platform. He also stated he would have worn a black Carhartt-type jacket that day; shown the Bridge Guy photo, he said he “could have been wearing a blue jacket,” a clothing contradiction the juror flagged. She also noted Allen’s missing 2017 cell phone: “When they searched his house he had a whole bag full of other old cell phones”; the specific phone from the day of the murders was never found. On Kathy Allen: “RA’s wife. You tried to keep him quiet on the phone. You knew.” On Allen’s daughter: she confirmed Richard Allen’s daughter was present in the courtroom as a defense witness, contradicting claims circulating online that she was not there.

Three-Juror Account Comparison
Where Accounts Align

Lucy Lou (Frankmeister/Ickmeister, April 2026) and The Unsolved juror (Tim’s channel, May 2025) make essentially identical points on several key issues despite claiming not to have coordinated:

Confessions predated Haldol. The single most consistent talking point across both interviews. Lucy Lou states the first confession was 19 days post-arrest, before any medication. The Unsolved juror’s notes confirm Haldol wasn’t introduced until 5/2/23. Both frame pre-medication confessions as dispositive on voluntariness. That framing is precisely what the State wants, and exactly what the defense’s appellate brief challenges on different grounds (the Banks negligence standard; fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree).

Feigning mental illness. Both jurors asked or noted whether Allen was faking symptoms to avoid general population. Lucy Lou says she personally asked a psychiatrist and was told yes, it’s possible. The Unsolved juror cites Dr. Dwenger confirming “it is possible he was feigning his mental health.”

Allen’s voice = Bridge Guy’s voice. Both describe a visceral reaction to hearing Allen’s voice. Lucy Lou calls it one of the most compelling moments. The Unsolved juror wrote: “the hairs stood up on my arms”; she says she “absolutely believed that was the same voice.”

Melissa Oberg / firearms testimony. Both name her as a compelling witness. Both also characterize the defense’s firearms experts as having reviewed only photographs, while the prosecution’s experts handled the physical evidence directly.

Missing 2017 cell phone. Both flag it independently. Lucy Lou: “he had all these other phones, 20 cell phones and two pagers… but they didn’t have that one.” The Unsolved juror: “where is his cell phone from 2017! When they searched his house he had a whole bag full of other old cell phones!”

Kathy Allen. Both express belief that Allen’s wife recognized something was wrong and tried to keep him quiet. Lucy Lou describes phone calls where family cut him off from confessing. The Unsolved juror: “RA’s wife. You tried to keep him quiet on the phone. You knew.”

Allen’s daughter. Both describe her as emotional and not looking at her father during testimony. Lucy Lou: “she wouldn’t even look at him… she was up there balling.” The Unsolved juror confirms she was a defense witness, correcting misinformation that she was not present.

Defense strategy. Both characterize the defense as focused almost entirely on Allen’s mental state and prison treatment, with neither identifying strong exculpatory evidence from the defense.

Key Divergences Appeal

Ballistics: confirmed jury-room fault line across all three named jurors. This is not a difference in interview framing; it is a documented split in how jurors individually weighted the same physical evidence:

  • Lucy Lou (Frankmeister): Emphatic believer. Describes blown-up posters at 60× magnification, the comparison microscope, watching an entire day of video on how firearms are manufactured. Says the cartridge markings “were right on” and calls Oberg her most impactful witness largely because of the ballistics.
  • The Unsolved juror: Names Oberg as compelling but focuses on the process distinction (prosecution handled physical evidence; defense reviewed only photographs). Does not express Lucy Lou’s level of personal conviction about the match itself.
  • Murder Sheet juror (Mia McHaffey): Explicitly says she “threw out the science of the bullet” and “didn’t consider it at all.” Between Warren’s testimony and the defense’s cross of Oberg, she became “skeptical on the bullet.”

Lucy Lou presents ballistics as if it was a shared slam dunk. Mia’s account reveals it was genuinely contested and that at least one juror convicted without it. For the appeal, this matters: the State’s brief leans on the cartridge match, but the jury’s actual reliance on it is not uniform. The keepsake box bullet follows the same pattern: Lucy Lou says she took it “with a grain of salt”; The Unsolved juror doesn’t mention it; Mia doesn’t credit it. It was less powerful in the jury room than outside observers assumed.

Sarah Carbaugh: a direct three-way split. The Unsolved juror explicitly says “I believed her” and found her testimony “very powerful and believable.” Lucy Lou discusses the muddy/bloody sighting context favorably without naming Carbaugh directly. Mia says “kind of as a whole, we decided to just throw that one out.” She adds that the defense “did a good job trying to discount her.” Two jurors found Carbaugh credible; the deliberation record shows the jury effectively triage-removed her testimony as a group.

The Holman interrogation: sharpest tonal split. Lucy Lou reads the interrogation videos as exposing Allen’s guilt and treats them as evidence of deception. Mia is openly troubled: “he just kept going on and going on and going on” and says she “felt like it was overdone.” She describes the jury’s reaction as “kind of mixed” and says personally the videos made Allen seem like “a guy that never been in with the law before” who “really didn’t know anything to have done.” At least one juror switched from guilty to undecided after rewatching those videos on Saturday, pulling the vote from 9–3 back to 8–4. The Holman interrogation is simultaneously the evidence Lucy Lou credits as damning and the evidence that moved a guilty juror to undecided.

The van. Lucy Lou calls it one of her two “aha moments.” Allen telling Dr. Walla he was spooked by a van explains, in her view, why he made the girls cross Deer Creek and why the crime scene showed signs of interruption. Mia says “what stands out to everyone is the van” and identifies it as the confession detail that most moved her toward guilty. The Unsolved juror doesn’t mention it. The van appears to have been more persuasive than the volume of confessions across both named jurors who address it.

What each juror names as most damaging. Lucy Lou leads with placement/timeline: Allen putting himself on the bridge at the same time as the girls, in Bridge Guy’s clothing, across the interrogation videos. The Unsolved juror leads with confessions, voice match, and contradictory statements about the bridge. Mia provides the clearest analytical framework: the jury established “Bridge Guy = Allen” first (Allen placed himself there, described his own clothing matching Bridge Guy’s), then worked forward to the murders. “Really, just things that he reported himself is really what got me closest.”

“And when I went back.” Only Lucy Lou reports this: she claims Allen made an inadvertent admission during interrogation, saying “and when I went back.” She interprets it as evidence he was at the trails earlier that morning scoping. Neither the Unsolved juror nor Mia mentions it. If accurate, this would be significant consciousness-of-guilt evidence; it does not appear in the other two accounts.

Credibility and Structural Observations

The two Juror #5 accounts are broadly consistent in ways that suggest both women were in that courtroom: the same witnesses, same exhibits, same emotional weight. Their differences are mostly in emphasis and which details stuck with each person, which is what you would expect from two genuine independent observers. If they were coordinating or one was copying the other, you would expect more uniformity in what each highlights as pivotal. The van, for example, is central to Lucy Lou and absent from The Unsolved juror’s account; the “caught lying on the bridge” framing is central to The Unsolved juror and handled differently by Lucy Lou.

The Murder Sheet juror is clearly distinct from both: younger, first-time juror, describes herself as emotional and “a gossip person,” decided to pursue law school after the trial, and was one of the undecided holdouts who switched to guilty on the final day. Her account is the most valuable for appellate analysis because she provides the vote progression (9–3 → 8–4 → 12–0), discloses what evidence she discarded (bullet, Carbaugh), and is transparent about what troubled her (Holman interrogation, the possibility of psychosis-driven confessions). She is the only named juror who acknowledges excluded evidence as a genuine unknown rather than dismissing it outright.

Key Takeaways for Appeal Appeal
  1. The conviction rests primarily on self-placement + timeline + clothing match + the van confession detail, not on ballistics, not on the volume of confessions, and not on Carbaugh. At least one named juror (Mia) convicted while explicitly discarding the cartridge evidence and the Carbaugh sighting.
  2. At least one juror found the Holman interrogation troubling for the prosecution, not damning for Allen. The same videos that Lucy Lou reads as proof of deception caused a guilty juror to flip to undecided after rewatching them on Day 3.
  3. The confession-before-medication argument was contested during deliberations. Lucy Lou and The Unsolved juror present it as dispositive. Mia’s account reveals jurors actually tracked medication timelines against confession dates and seriously considered whether the confessions resulted from psychosis. They ultimately concluded the van detail was sufficient on its own.
  4. The deliberation process involved systematically removing doubted evidence and asking whether the case held without it. Carbaugh gone; bullet gone; multiple confessions discounted. The conviction that emerged rests on a narrower evidentiary base than the State’s brief implies, which is both a reasonable jury methodology and a constraint on what the appeal can argue was load-bearing.

Mia McHaffey's public statements remain the most substantive named-juror disclosures in this case. Cross-referenced against the voir dire profiles, she is a strong candidate for Juror 08 (Day 1, Round 2, Seat 6), identified as the Murder Sheet podcast juror, based on the near-identical approach to the van confession, disregard for the cartridge evidence, no prior jury service, and emotional profile consistent across both sources.

The deliberation record from the Murder Sheet interview adds significant texture: a jury that moved backward on Day 3 (8–4 after video review, down from 9–3), that heard at least one juror shift the burden of proof, that had alternates present in the room throughout, and that reached unanimity only after a foreman-directed structured framework on Day 4. Multiple of these details are independently relevant to the appeal.

Mia simultaneously defends the verdict on evidentiary grounds and opens the door to a retrial on constitutional process grounds. Her most significant contributions: (a) she is the first named juror to confirm she did not rely on ballistics, (b) she did rely on the van confession detail, the very statement the defense argues should have been excluded as obtained while Allen was gravely disabled, and (c) she is unfamiliar with “the drug angle,” suggesting excluded material was genuinely withheld from the jury's deliberation rather than merely argued around it.

The juror identified as “Juror #5,” who appeared as Tim’s juror on The Unsolved (May 28, 2025) and as Lucy Lou 29 on the Frankmeister interview (April 21, 2026), adds a competing data point across two separate disclosures: she found Melissa Oberg (forensic firearms examiner) to be a singularly impactful witness, described the cartridge comparison as “just like a fingerprint,” immediately recognized Allen’s voice from the interrogation video as Bridge Guy’s, found Sarah Carbaugh credible, and placed Allen’s shifting timeline as a central deliberation factor. Cross-referenced against Mia’s account, these two named jurors had fundamentally different evidentiary anchors: Mia weighted the van confession and disregarded ballistics; Juror #5 weighted Oberg, voice recognition, and timeline inconsistencies. Her handwritten notes shown in The Unsolved video contain the notation “only publish 303” (the juror’s own record that Exhibit 304 was not published to the jury) and attribute the 4/4/23 confession phrases to Monica Wala’s in-court testimony; a separate provenance analysis disputes this attribution, and the conflict is unresolved. Her Frankmeister interview contains confirmed post-trial contamination across at least three specific factual claims.